Similiar to Rhinelander and Morris

[Treewater]

This is a day of research and I just realized the most distinctive feature of one canoe is the "splayed stem." This canoe was found in Atlanta, IL, not far from Peoria. It has the distinctive splayed stem however, unlike the Morris, it is done in two pieces. A piece of cedar was laid in the bottom over the ribs and planking to support the stem and it widens to 5 1/2 inches. The stem is of constant width and fits over the splayed section rather than being an integral part. I have not seen this method in any other canoe even while it must have been used. The canoe is closed gunwale so that puts it back a long while by itself. Has anyone else seen this?

 

[Dan Miller]

Quite possibly a repair?

 

[Mark Adams]

yeah, I'm with Dan. the workmanship isn't up to par with what is visible of the rest of the canoe.

 

[normsims]

The ribs seem to taper, which would be a characteristic of a Morris. And it has three cant ribs, which would fit with an older Morris. I agree that the splayed stem looks like a repair because of the workmanship.

Norm

 

[Treewater]

For whatever reason I had ruled out Morris some years ago. This canoe has been "remuddled" at some point with a squeare back and fiberglass. Here's a few more pictures if someone thinks it is a Morris tell me why.

 

[Greg Nolan]

The pictured seat frame and thwart look like Morris.
Greg

 

[Treewater]

squareback Morris?

Thanks Greg, I am reconsidering the Morris idea. The canoe has clearly been re-worked, in my view. If indeed it was once a Morris it is now a squareback and that is the reason I got it to begin with. The bow had been reworked as well.

 

[Dave Osborn]

I vote for Morris repaired. The seats, thwarts, etc all look Morris. If it has pocketed inwales... you'll know for sure.

 

[Treewater]

So are these similair to Morris?

 

[Dave Osborn]

Tree,
It's sorta hard to tell from the photo if the rib tips fit into little pockets milled out of the inwale, or terminate at the inwale. Terminating at the inwale doesn't make sense, so i assume they are pocketed inwales. After the splayed stem, which threw us a curve ball with the repair, it is the most recognizable Morris trait that I'm aware of.

 

[Treewater]

Yes, it's a Morris

My congratulations to Kathy who spotted this for a Morris from just one picture I posted years ago. Having filled and hung one canoe in the front room to dry I found room, plus time + curiosity, to get out this square back and pull the wale cap off. It is also in the shop where I can set it beside a complete 17ft Morris I have. From the ribs, seats, thwarts, and distinctive socket rib tips, I have to conclude this is/was a Morris. In a way I am sad since it is in such bad/re-muddled shape. I counted 38 full ribs vs 41 in my 17 footer, so this must have been a 16 footer at one time. It is now a 14 footer. I will go no further with it. The fiberglass covering will stay for someone else to peel off. It goes to the classified and perhaps someone better than I will restore it as a Morris should be. No serial number I can find and I am curious, how many old Morris’ have been uncovered as of this time? It this thing even worth restoring?

 

[Treewater]

What is this?

Curiosity got to me and I peeled the fiberglass. I have here pictures of the bow. From what I see, a new bow stem was created. What is visible now is the ten laminate new bow. Yes, ten pieces of laminate instead of a steam bent solid piece. The outside stem is shown and it is steam bent and deeply rabbited to fit over the canvas on the bow. In this case, fiberglass. The outside stem was held in place by two bolts and I assume these to be unique to Morris. What puzzles me are the incised rib sockets. It would make more sense if someone would tell me this bow profile is common to Morris canoes somewhere. It does not match my other Morris which is much more upswept. Also, I can find no evidence in the gunwales that a deck was ever in place.
Add to the questions, these holes on the gunwale had some sort of offset head, like a concrete “J” bolt but upside down. The holes were not being used when I removed the fiberglass the evenness on both sides indicates something was one in place and carefully done. Someone familiar with Morris’ comment please.

 

[Dan Miller]

these holes on the gunwale had some sort of offset head, like a concrete “J” bolt but upside down. The holes were not being used when I removed the fiberglass the evenness on both sides indicates something was one in place and carefully done. Someone familiar with Morris’ comment please.

Yes, that is typical for a Morris, to hang seats and thwarts on a closed gunwale canoe.

As for the rest, well, it's been worked on. Enthusiastically.

 

[Treewater]

Thanks Dan. What I need to know is if the shape of the bow resembles any Morris at all. The only example I have is much more upswept. I find it hard to believe someone bent DOWN the original gunwale. Seems to me some Morris must have had this original shape.

 

[Greg Nolan]

“I find it hard to believe someone bent DOWN the original gunwale.”

Maybe that’s exactly what they did. The ten laminate stem clearly indicates that reshaping of the stem likely took place – shortening it, and reshaping its curve to meet up with inwales (can you tell if they are original in length, or have they been shortened at all?).

The most forward rib in your pictures appears to be wider at the top than is usual – suggesting that it has been shortened somewhat, as would be necessary if the sheer line were lowered. It is harder to tell about the second rib top – it may be a bit shorter, resulting in the very tight fit of the rib into the inwale socket.

I have only a few scraps of the original inwales on my Morris, and they were loose in the bottom of the boat when I got it, but as the pictures show, the tops of the ribs and the inwale sockets are pretty uniform in size all along. Not so clear in the pictures is that the rib tops are not really snug in the inwale sockets – there is a bit of play in the fit. (But given the condition of my canoe, that may not be representative of the original construction. In the pictures, the inwale scraps are being held close to their original location, but only approximate how they would have fit when built in place -- there is a poor attempt at a replacement deck in the way that keeps them from being properly fit.)

In your pictures, the first rib top is somewhat wider than I would have expected, but if it has been cut shorter, it would be wider, and I would guess that the inwale socket was made wider to accommodate it. The second rib top, which would have been cut less short, looks closer to standard size – but maybe it was whittled down a bit to fit the socket?

I’m not an expert on Morrises – but I would guess that your canoe tips suffered the fate of many canoes stored on the ground – the stem tips and deck ends rotted away. And I would guess that in being repaired – “enthusiastically” – the stem profile was lowered and reshaped, and the inwale and the first couple of rib tops were played with to make everything fit.

I’ve also attached a couple of pics of the “L” shaped bolts that were used to hold the thwarts in place. One of my inwale fragments had one of the bolts. As installed, the top of the bolt, sunk into the inwale, would have been covered by the top rail that completed the closed gunwale system.



Greg

 

[Treewater]

Thanks to all who advised me on this. I have to conclude that indeed this canoe was worked on "enthusiastically." Good word to use. From all I can tell, the forward ribs were indeed shortened, the inner wale was bent down, a new laminate stem installed, the old outside stem reused, thwarts moved 4 1/4 " toward center (widened the canoe) and the forward seat moved forward an inch. Forward deck was dispensed with. Rear seat dispensed with. The square back created by cutting the third rib in and putting a flat board in place. The whole thing was fiberglassed and new outer wale and cap installed. From the look, a motor under 2 HP was used and used a lot.
It started as a Morris "A" type one and a 16 ft as best I can tell. Like old buildings, if canoes could only talk the stories they could tell. PM message Greg.