Canoe ID?
- Thread starter workingbadger
- Start date
Pictures would help. The auction at http://www.ebay.com/itm/282285820738 has some pictures of a 17 foot long J. H. Rushton Indian Girl.
Benson
Benson
OP
OP
Photos added. I guess that is what the 'upload' button is for....
MGC
Scrapmaker
Kind of odd actually.... probably one for Dan to ID.
Rushton style thwart (one missing)
IG style seat hangers but signs that the stern seat was originally attached to the rails (as an IG should be).
Rushton style deck tie hardware. (should be marked if Rushton)
IG ish seats with the small holes that were typical of the IG's...but obviously tweaked when repaired
Rib tips that appear to be wider than typical Rushton
No half ribs
Double gunwale
Whistle Wing Deluxe or American Beauty style decks
So I'm going out on a limb and say definitely maybe.
St. Lawrence Boatworks, Rushton? I have not seen enough of these to be certain of that but given all of the Northern NY style queues that's my best guess....and it is a guess.
What would be helpful is for someone to;
Provide photo's that highlight the top plank and gore.
Better view of the ribtops.
Check the deck hardware. That style Rushton deck tie hardware should be maker marked
Confirm that the stern seat was lowered.
Look for serial numbers or builder mark on stems.
What part of the country did this turn up in?
Rushton style thwart (one missing)
IG style seat hangers but signs that the stern seat was originally attached to the rails (as an IG should be).
Rushton style deck tie hardware. (should be marked if Rushton)
IG ish seats with the small holes that were typical of the IG's...but obviously tweaked when repaired
Rib tips that appear to be wider than typical Rushton
No half ribs
Double gunwale
Whistle Wing Deluxe or American Beauty style decks
So I'm going out on a limb and say definitely maybe.
St. Lawrence Boatworks, Rushton? I have not seen enough of these to be certain of that but given all of the Northern NY style queues that's my best guess....and it is a guess.
What would be helpful is for someone to;
Provide photo's that highlight the top plank and gore.
Better view of the ribtops.
Check the deck hardware. That style Rushton deck tie hardware should be maker marked
Confirm that the stern seat was lowered.
Look for serial numbers or builder mark on stems.
What part of the country did this turn up in?
Last edited:
Paul Miller
Canoe Nut
Hi,
Diddo to much of what MGC said, could be St. Lawrence or Rushton.
Should be a number on top of the stem, which also look like Rushton, they were wider than most others.
Looks good,
Paul
Diddo to much of what MGC said, could be St. Lawrence or Rushton.
Should be a number on top of the stem, which also look like Rushton, they were wider than most others.
Looks good,
Paul
MGC
Scrapmaker
Yes...I should have noted that. Good eye and I agree.
Gil Cramer
The wooden canoe Shop, Inc.
If all else fails, try Racine.
MGC
Scrapmaker
That thought crossed my mind after I ruled out Kennebec
Racine would explain the dropped stern seat but not the holes in the rails. Did long deck Racines have a king plank?
Were Racine seat frames a bit more "robust" than what we are seeing here..as well as a bit more sculpted?
I'm not familiar enough with the various iterations of Racine to know if that would explain the lack of taper and width of the ribs.
What really throws me is that thwart...it's a very strong Rushton clone. Same for that tie down on the deck....that's a very distinctive detail. And the stem...
I'm still curious to learn where it turned up. Canoes tend to turn up (except OT and to a lesser extent Morris) pretty darned close to where they were built.
Gil Cramer
The wooden canoe Shop, Inc.
The holes in the rails are probably for a mast thwart since there looks like there was once a mast step on the floor. The untapered ribs are typical of some Racine canoes. The seat area of the bow seat is practically square and almost identical to the stern seat. That suggests Racine, also. The thwart does not look like any Racine thwart that I have seen. I believe that the canoe is in Wisconsin. Racine is just a guess.
OP
OP
Yes, a buddy of mine here in Wisconsin picked it up in Lake Placid 20+ years ago. It also has a tie down that appears to be cast iron. It says Rushton, but I think it should be brass, or nickle-plated. See photo below. I believe Racines all had seats mounted with hangers. I need to look at some St. Lawrence photos. Wish I could find some decent photos or specs for an AB. The 1915 catalog on the Dragonfly CD shows a drawing of one with a single center thwart, but it doesn't give a length.
Attachments
MGC
Scrapmaker
After looking at the rest of the photo's of that canoe, I don't think there is any question about what it is.
The single thwart is correct, the lack of taper in the ribs may prove to be simply due to the angle of the photos (they are tapered, just not as much as I would expect from that builder), the wide stem, the seat hangers, the squared seat frames with 3/16th holes etc.
The asking price seems a bit high for the condition but I tend to be on the frugal side WRT un-restored boats. Great bones on this one though. I think I can make room for it in the garage. All I need to do is get rid of the 06 double gunwale..takers??? Low miles, only used by a little old lady for slow Sunday morning paddles...
-
I think I have pictures of one on my desktop PC. If I do I'll post them. There is a very nice in in Clayton.
Nice thread...fun to learn a bit about the Racines. Thanks Gil.
The single thwart is correct, the lack of taper in the ribs may prove to be simply due to the angle of the photos (they are tapered, just not as much as I would expect from that builder), the wide stem, the seat hangers, the squared seat frames with 3/16th holes etc.
The asking price seems a bit high for the condition but I tend to be on the frugal side WRT un-restored boats. Great bones on this one though. I think I can make room for it in the garage. All I need to do is get rid of the 06 double gunwale..takers??? Low miles, only used by a little old lady for slow Sunday morning paddles...
-
I think I have pictures of one on my desktop PC. If I do I'll post them. There is a very nice in in Clayton.
Nice thread...fun to learn a bit about the Racines. Thanks Gil.
OP
OP
Great looking. Both photos are the same. Wouldn't mind seeing more.
As noted in your serial number search thread, the canoe dates to circa 1911. It is an American Beauty model. The closest Rushton catalog I have scans of is from 1912. Attached is the page showing the American Beauty. Yours would appear to be one built according to the "note: at the bottom of the page - without outside stems and with a floor rack instead of half-ribs. Note that you have a floor rack clip on one of your stems.
Attachments
OP
OP
Thank you very much!
MGC
Scrapmaker
Given the pea sized dimension of my brain and corresponding performance I suppose that some day I'll figure out that I should label pictures after I take them....
These are the photos that I thought were of an American Beauty but now I'm wondering if it's an IG with AB trim.?..I don't remember
This is a boat in Dan's backyard, possibly one he worked on so hopefully he can set me straight on this.
What is relevant to this thread are the decks, rails, seat locations etc.
These are the photos that I thought were of an American Beauty but now I'm wondering if it's an IG with AB trim.?..I don't remember
This is a boat in Dan's backyard, possibly one he worked on so hopefully he can set me straight on this.
What is relevant to this thread are the decks, rails, seat locations etc.
Attachments
Mike, that boat is back in its storage locker in the Adirondacks - it belongs to the Adirondack Museum. Your photos were taken when it was on loan to the Antique Boat Museum in Clayton back in 2007-2008.
Theoretically, an AB is simply an Indian Girl with the long decks, etc. Clearly this one has a more dramatic sheer than most.
My belief is that there were only molds for the Indian and Indian Girl. American Beauty and Navahoe were built on standard (modified) Indian Girls molds. There were some other models shown in catalogs (e.g. Big Chief), but none are known to have been built.
Theoretically, an AB is simply an Indian Girl with the long decks, etc. Clearly this one has a more dramatic sheer than most.
My belief is that there were only molds for the Indian and Indian Girl. American Beauty and Navahoe were built on standard (modified) Indian Girls molds. There were some other models shown in catalogs (e.g. Big Chief), but none are known to have been built.
