What's a 3/8" diameter hole in the decks for?

[Howie]

I'm working on a 15' OldTown 50 Pounder from 1945. Both its teeny decks have a 3/8" diameter hole in them located between the stem and where a decal might have once been. What was the holes' original purpose? Might they each have held a pole holding a flag or pennant? Or an eye-bolt? Painter's ring? What might the canoe been shipped with originally? Were these holes specially ordered? or were they standard issue?

 

[Benson Gray]

Flag pole holes in a canoe deck usually had a metal fitting like the one shown at http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?1150 so these may have simply been for a painter line. It is not likely that the canoe shipped with them unless they were specified on the build record. My guess is that they were added later.

Benson

 

[Dave Osborn]

Howie,
I've seen the same kind of hole on many canoes. I've taken a couple in that have a knotted rope through them.
To dress them up, I put a brass grommet in the hole.....

 

[Howie]

Thanks for the info all. Think maybe I'll plug 'em up with an oak button plug.

 

[Todd Bradshaw]

I have holes like that in the decks of my Old Town - put them there myself when I replaced the decks. I find them extremely handy to have for a number of uses and would most likely do the same to any boat I own.

 

[Dave Osborn]

Good point, Todd! I wouldn't plug them unless a customer requests it.
The brass grommet looks pretty cool.....

 

[Todd Bradshaw]

If you cartop without tying down the ends of the boat you are just asking for trouble, and my Guide has notches worn into the inwales from the days before the holes, when I had to tie off to them through the slots. The standard Old Town accessory painter ring was basically a one-legged, small diameter U-bolt that never seemed like it would be a very secure option to me, so when I replaced the decks, I figured I'd put an end to the problem with the holes. They work great, and also can come in quite handy at times if you're doing something like adding a sail rig.

 

[MGC]

If the holes are there the damage is done. You might as well leave them.

I have often noted that I am not a fan of boring holes in decks but most OT's are not historic relics that are damaged by adding them.
I remain committed to tying through the space between the rails and have never seen any rail wear from that.

I do have several boats that have these holes and I never use them for tie-downs during transport. Given that the grain in the decks runs parallel to the decks concentrating the additional stress from a tie down in the center of the deck (not to mention whatever additional stress that comes from wind while driving) is an invitation to further damage the decks. The center of a deck with a hole bored through it is the weakest point between the rails. Putting a knotted rope behind that hole and pulling on it puts all of the stress right in that one spot. You don't need to do a FEA to visualize this. I suppose anyone that has looked at or worked on a lot of canoes has seen their share of the resulting split decks. And, in my opinion, the holes look terrible.

That said, I rarely tie down the front of any of my canoes while they are on the car. I find that the stiffness of a wood hull makes these the extra ties unnecessary. I buy cars that have nice long roof lines (Volvo wagons are ideal) and use good quality Yakima racks, spaced as far apart as possible and cinch down with good quality cinch straps. The only boats I tie in the front is my OT Royalex Penobscott. That boat flexes like crazy in the wind (and in the water).
I don't even tie my 20 footer down in the front. I should note, I don't crawl around on the highway...I do my fair share of passing. Typically I only tie down the bow and stern if I am planning to drive over 2 or 3 hundred miles or if there are real big cross winds.
I have yet to lose or damage a boat (well, there was one about 45 years ago, crappy racks, not well tied, going too fast, sorry Dan)....

Here is a link to another recently recommended "fix" that uses a copper pipe and hole bored through the hull:
http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?13937-Painter-s-Rings

Good grief.....

 

[Dan Lindberg]

Mike,

You must not of seen the post (in the last couple weeks on a BW site I think) of a pair of kayaks tightly tied to Yakama racks that tore off and went bouncing down the road.

There's not much holding the popular racks on if you look inside them.

Dan

 

[Todd Bradshaw]

As a former Yakima dealer from day one I can tell you that they have always clearly specified that end tie downs should be used with their racks for carrying canoes. With the demise of automobile rain gutters this eventually became even more critical as modern cars can be much more difficult to fit securely. Naturally, there is always some guy who thinks he's smarter and knows better and can skip them. That's certainly his privilege, but having once had a Grumman fly off of a car on the interstate and bounce off into the median about 100 yards in front of me, I avoid riding behind these people.

 

[Dave Osborn]

The grommet....

Thompson Indian....former livery canoe in Madison, thus the #6...

 

[MGC]

Dan, I did not see that but I can envision it. Kayaks have their own unique challenges. Some of these roof systems put tremendous pressure on the roof. When I carry kayaks I tie them down since the straps are not spaced far enough apart to properly secure the hulls.

I also tie if I am using a car that is using roof mounted racks vs. roof rails. The roof mounted systems (Yak Q towers, Thule feet) are prone to sliding around and not as secure as a good rail mount system. In those systems the rails are more likely to pull off the roof than for the rail grabbers to fail...depending upon the car manufacturer. The worst case seem to be the Subaru's where the roof line is short and the rails are mounted in two (per side) very short sections. There the loads are not well distributed on the roof and the tie down straps cannot be placed far enough apart on the hull to secure the boat adequately. If I ever am forced to put a canoe on one of those cars I will certainly tie it in every possible place.

That said, on my Volvo's the roof rails are held on with adequate hardware that is torqued into very substantial welded mounts. When I installed these I loctited the bolts in place. The rail spacing allows my straps to be spaced far enough apart on the hull so that the boat is very secure on the roof. It is literally impossible to move the boat around once the straps are cinched down. I should note that I do use the gunwale mounts. I am fortunate to have TracRacks on my truck. Those also are substantial and well spaced and hold canoes very solidly with just the cinch straps.

The last problem I had with a boat on the roof was with my Yakima gutter mount racks. I had the boat tied down front and back and almost lost it in a cross wind on route 85 in Maine. I thought that Morris was going to end up getting blown back to Veazie in pieces. That was before Yakima offered the nice straps they now offer. I don't miss those old Yak racks even though at the time they were as good as you could get.

Circling back to the topic, I would not ever choose to bore holes in my decks to use as a tie-down. When I tie the bow and stern down, I prefer to tie to the rails or the seats where I am sure I can adequately snug things up without worrying about damaging the boat.

 

[Dave Wermuth]

If'n I were to use the hole for a tie down, I think I would back it up with an under deck cross brace that would transfer the stress from the deck to the inwales.

 

[Paul Scheuer]

Loads on roof racks. My latest cars have all had factory racks, which I tend to trust, maybe I shouldn't. Whenever I have anything on the roof, I use a minimum of three tie-downs. I use soft, fat rope (3/4 in.), with an eye splice on one end. The eye splice goes on the passenger side. My side gets a round turn and half hitches that I can see in the mirror. I can check periodically, and if one line loosens, I've still got two. The fat rope tends to lessen the chance chafing through, and I can tie/untie in the rain/ cold or dark. If the load has more than one piece, I tie all of the pieces together. If something does happen, it's better if all of the pieces remain in the same jurisdiction for reporting purposes.

 

[Kathryn Klos]

I decided this would be an appropriate place to mention (again) the loops that can be used to secure a canoe at the front of the car. Pictured is a car I no longer have and loops that were home-made. Rutabaga sells a ready-made pair for about ten bucks. The car in the photos is a Subaru Forester but these loops work in the same manner with a Jeep Cherokee and my daughter's Saturn.

 

[Dave Osborn]

I'm not condoning the use of the deck hole as a tie down for over the road transport.
Merely making a suggestion on how to dress up an ugly hole that shouldn't be there.