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Seliga 5 66 282

Discussion in 'Serial Number Search' started by Craig Johnson, Dec 23, 2019.

  1. Craig Johnson

    Craig Johnson LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
  2. Dan Lindberg

    Dan Lindberg Ex Wood Hoarder

    Seliga S/N 5 66 282 is one that Sommers bought. It is listed as having canvas and old Town filler. It is just after he went back to canvas and experimented with different fillers. Are you sure it is 6" Northern white? This is at the end of the 10ish year period when Joe used 6" western red for planking, however, a canoe several before this one is listed as 6" Northern white.
    Trim is likely ash.

    This is an interesting number as it is one of 3 he started in May, 281, 282 and 283, which is not usual.

    Please post more pics as you work on this one.

    Forgot, build started May 1966.
    Dan
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Craig Johnson

    Craig Johnson LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Thanks Dan. It is possible that the planking is western red cedar. I’ll check later today. I had read that he used 6 inch white cedar so I just assumed that’s what it was. The trim is ash. The gunwales were scarf jointed but not in the middle of the Canoe. There is a 12 foot section and then about 4 foot section. Is that common practice?
     
  4. MGC

    MGC Scrapmaker

    I'm encouraged to learn that I'm not the only one who loses track of his tacking pattern.
     
  5. Dan Lindberg

    Dan Lindberg Ex Wood Hoarder

    Joe used 6" western red cedar for planking for about 10 years because he was able to get it precut from a supplier in the Cities. When that went away, he went back to the traditional 3.5" planking, and he regularly alternated between western red and Northern white, depending on what he could get. Note that for most of the years he used the 6" planking he also glassed his canoes. But he didn't like epoxy and switched back to traditional filler, with a short time of experimenting with other fillers, like airplane dope.
    Until I looked yesterday, I don't/didn't remember any reference to 6" Northern white used for planking. BUT there it was, so Joe obviously tried it after using the 6" red for all those years. There is only the 1 reference to it.

    I've also never seen a scarfed rail from Joe, and I can't imagine he would scarf a 4' piece, so my guess is those are replaced rails. Remember that Sommers used their canoes hard.
     
  6. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

    Thanks,

    Benson
     
  7. OP
    OP
    Craig Johnson

    Craig Johnson LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Benson I assume you realized I meant it was the next to the last photograph.
    Dan you are correct it was western red cedar which I’m happy about because I have a good supply of that. This boat was canvas originally. The one reference to the white cedar must’ve been what I stumbled on to. I don’t know what the filler was but definitely wasn’t fiberglassed. This boat has been sitting with the canvas off for 40 years And there are only some small remanence around a couple of tacks
     
    Dan Lindberg likes this.
  8. OP
    OP
    Craig Johnson

    Craig Johnson LOVES Wooden Canoes

    I’m not seeing it. Please explain.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2019
  9. MGC

    MGC Scrapmaker

    Your third photo, from left to right, the second rib, 8th tack down should be right but it went left....not a big deal in the grand scheme of anything. Just the sort of thing that happens and once it's done it's there. It jumps out when you look at the way he lined up the rest of the tacks.:oops:
     
  10. OP
    OP
    Craig Johnson

    Craig Johnson LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Dan what treatment was original for seats on Joe’s canoes? Here is hat I have. EFB23E03-2D49-4270-B736-1E7243A81D60.jpeg
     
  11. mccloud

    mccloud "Tiger Rag" back on the tidal Potomac

    After reading Craig's post, I pulled "The Art of the canoe with Joe Seliga" by Jerry Stelmok off the bookshelf, where it has resided, collecting dust for years. I had forgotten what a great book it is! The photos on pages 150-159 show Joe building a frame, installing machine-woven cane, then installing the seat. Any rookie interested in canoe building or restoration, (which is certainly not Craig) ought to have this book as a reference.
    Tom McCloud
     
  12. OP
    OP
    Craig Johnson

    Craig Johnson LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Hi Tom. I don’t actually have the seats in my possession yet and I assume I am just looking at the bottom of them. I imagine a groove for the machine cane is on the other side.
     
  13. Dan Lindberg

    Dan Lindberg Ex Wood Hoarder

    Here is a pic Gil sent me of a '66 canoe, note the square cut corners, this was typical of Joe's canoes of this vintage.
    Also note the ash frame and the radius he used back then.
    The 2ed is a pic from a '77 canoe, same square corners but different radius's on the frame.

    Usually the rear seat is up tight to the rails, the front dropped in the usual fashion.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
  14. OP
    OP
    Craig Johnson

    Craig Johnson LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Thanks Dan.
     
  15. OP
    OP
    Craig Johnson

    Craig Johnson LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Interesting Dan. The Stelmok book on Joe Seliga, beginning on page 152, shows him using a pin and router to make rounded corners for the cane spline. Would this have been a different time? Regardless the seats with this canoe have neither holes for traditional cane or a groove for pressed cane. Possibly they are replacements. 59960969994__42423D1E-0168-423A-AEE3-E8E2A70A129B.JPG 59960969994__42423D1E-0168-423A-AEE3-E8E2A70A129B.JPG 59960972886__64E05881-43D4-4C05-A13A-D3D224B66018.JPG
    Something else, the number 114 is stamped on both decks and it looks like the same font as the stem numbers. Would Joe have done this or more likely the camp? P1010006.jpg
     
  16. pklonowski

    pklonowski Unrepentant Canoeist

    The seats have many staple holes... could have been web seats?
     
  17. Dave Osborn

    Dave Osborn LIFE MEMBER

    I’ve had a couple of webbed seat Seliga canoes through my shop. They left with drilled holes and hand woven cane.
     
  18. Dan Lindberg

    Dan Lindberg Ex Wood Hoarder

    Joe switched from square corners to rounded sometime in the early 1980's,
    there is a transition period where (I assume) he was developing his process for routing the round corners.

    Even Joe's very early canoes had cained seats, usually machine cain, though a couple have been hand cained.
    But, being this was a Sommers canoe, the frames could either have been replaced or maybe they ordered them with webbing as a trial?

    I have never seen a number stamped in Joe's decks, Sommers used to mark them with a large "X",
    if I had to guess, I'd guess that it is a fleet canoe number for/by Sommers.

    Dave, if you have pics of the seats with the webbing and the S/N's, that would be interesting.
     
  19. OP
    OP
    Craig Johnson

    Craig Johnson LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Paul, they did have webbing, or the bow did and the stern had plastic tubing. See photos in post 10. If joe used webbing on some fleet canoes maybe these frames are original. I still don’t have them yet.
     
  20. Dave Osborn

    Dave Osborn LIFE MEMBER

    Lindy,
    It was a Sommers canoe. The webbing that was on the seats was not original. If I recall correctly there were traces of the original left on the underside of the seats. Looked like lawn chair webbing.
     

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