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Please help! Possibly Rushton sailing canoe???

Discussion in 'Wood and Canvas' started by John Maderic, Dec 22, 2013.

  1. John Maderic

    John Maderic Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    After countless hours of searching, I may have finally found something, and need help identifying it so I know if I should purchase it.
     

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  2. pklonowski

    pklonowski Unrepentant Canoeist

    I'm no expert in identifications, but if I was looking at this, I'd have bought it already...
     
  3. Andre Cloutier

    Andre Cloutier Firestarter. Wicked Firestarter.

    Paul is right, unless the price is too hefty, pull the trigger and do the detective work later, that's a find.
     
  4. OP
    OP
    John Maderic

    John Maderic Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    Thanks so much guys. Ive emailed the seller.....I thought it was just some old kit made thing, but was looking at a post here showing one of the four remaining all wood Rushtons models, and although canvas/ wood, this has similarities. The owner knows no history or identification , and Im the only one thinking Rushton. And canoes aren't too big....I can get them off the home property when it goes for taxes........Thanks again for the replies... While awaiting a reply from the seller...does anyone feel for sure this was made by one of the better known makers. Its 14 feet long..no seen markings.
     
  5. Dan Miller

    Dan Miller cranky canoeist Staff Member

    It is not a Rushton - he did not build canvas over stringer canoes.

    The construction is pretty much exactly as described in W.P. Stephens's Canoe and Boat Builder - A Complete Manual for Amateurs which was published in nine editions between 1884 and 1903 in the section on canvas canoes. (See http://dragonflycanoe.com/stephens/)

    Neat canoe, and I would not hesitate to snatch it up myself.
    Dan
     
  6. OP
    OP
    John Maderic

    John Maderic Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    Thanks so much for the replies. Yours are so friendly and just a wealth of knowledge. Ive made an offer and am waiting for a reply. Along with my offer, the question of ...are the decks of plywood, or actually boards. Does anyone here know when plywood was first made/ used, as far as trying to date the canoe? (If in fact, plywood was used on this one)
     
  7. pklonowski

    pklonowski Unrepentant Canoeist

    Pieces of laminated wood, the same concept that we know as plywood, has been found in the tombs of ancient Egyptians... I don't know the more recent history of it, though...
     
  8. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

    The information at http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/History_of_Plywood.html indicates that the concepts of plywood have a very long history as Paul mentioned. One reply there says that "Plywood was not a commercial product until after 1905. We did not have exterior adhesives for plywood until 1934."

    Benson
     
  9. Dan Miller

    Dan Miller cranky canoeist Staff Member

    Canoes made of birch veneers were made in the 1880s, and molded plywood canoes built with waterproof glues were being built by Haskell by 1917. Sheet plywood, as we know it, came a bit later, as outlined here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plywood

    These decked canoes were usually made up of four pieces of wide planking, usually mahogany or Spanish cedar. Because of their width, they have a tendency to split, and plywood is often found on them as a result of repairs.
     
  10. OP
    OP
    John Maderic

    John Maderic Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    Thank yours so much! Your info on WP Stephens seems right on Dan. I'm amazed at what they were doing back in the eighteen hundreds. Attached, from the Stephens book, The Dot, possibly what this is modeled from, and also one of the pics here that I first excitedly connected it too....
     

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  11. Dan Miller

    Dan Miller cranky canoeist Staff Member

    Hard to say from the photos, but it does not appear to have a lot of tumblehome, which the Everson Shadow models (of which Dot is one) have in spades.

    To me it appears as if it could be built to Stephens's Jersey Blue model, but again hard to say without canoe and drawings side-by-side.
     
  12. pklonowski

    pklonowski Unrepentant Canoeist

    The mast hole locations in the deck are different, too. I don't know how good of an indicator that would be. Dan?
     
  13. Dan Miller

    Dan Miller cranky canoeist Staff Member

    I wouldn't rely on that. Sail rigs were highly variable and changeable, and often designed to suit the needs or whims of the owner. I can't tell if there is provision for a centerboard, but many canoes of this sort were built primarily for paddling and rigged with simple downwind rigs.
     
  14. OP
    OP
    John Maderic

    John Maderic Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    Thanks again everyone, and thanks Dan, incredible reading in WP Stephens book. I've added numerous words to my vocabulary, and have pictured that canoe cutting through the water, both sails hungrily filling themselves with the breeze! The anticipation of waiting for an answer from the owner is killing me...LOL. I also re-downloaded one pic from the add and put it here again, as it wouldn't enlarge earlier. I;m hoping the fact that the person also owned a guide boat(its sold) might mean it could be of quality (from the 1900 period)
     

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    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  15. OP
    OP
    John Maderic

    John Maderic Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    Ive arranged purchase of the canoe, but haven't been to the property, which I highly look forward to. The Lapstrake in the background is specifically why I reposted this one pc. , and sadly, yes, it was sold awhile ago, as these pics where taken months ago. Im following up with the seller on possibly other items, even as seemingly simple as an old receipt, etc, as a relative of hers had been a historian, and collector. Because of how helpful a number of yours have been so giving of your time and helpful, one of the main things I now search for is something to show yours and help yours in your search of history and knowledge. This is the only way I know of to give back to yours.
     
  16. bredlo

    bredlo LOVES Wooden Canoes

    I've been in touch with this seller already regarding that lapstrake in the bkgnd, it's not currently available. There are a few other boats in his collection, and he's no dummy when it comes to knowing what he has. Best of luck, this looks like a fun project!
     
  17. Paul Miller

    Paul Miller Canoe Nut

    Hi John,

    That happens to be a picture of my Rushton Nomad that you have posted.

    Here is another side shot and one after some stripping along with the line drawing from I think the Manley book.

    Merry Christmas,

    Paul
     

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  18. OP
    OP
    John Maderic

    John Maderic Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    Such an amazing visit to Scotties today. Being so 'green' in this world of historic canoes...she still graciously treated me as an honored guest. I know a few here that she spoke of on first name basis, like Rowland and Benson; yours would know; not just the canoes, but the wealth of information and history behind them that she puts together with each one. I was just overwhelmed. And as she spoke, the carpenter inside me struggled to overcome the intellectual part and just bask in the fine craftsmanship, alot of it over a hundred yrs old. To never have experienced in person, just one example: an 1898 16' all wood canoe weighing only 39#. When I finally left with my humble purchase, I felt blessed to have met her, and my hunger to continue to learn more had grown even stronger. A cold drizzling rain washed the dust from my canoe of an unknown builder as I drove home, and as the altitude increased, finally turned to snow as I neared home. One shot is of part of her individually named collection.
     

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  19. MackyM

    MackyM LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Looks like a winner. Will you have this at the assembly?
     
  20. OP
    OP
    John Maderic

    John Maderic Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    Im still digging away for an ID. I ran across a blog ;Playing With Boats by 'Authenticboats'. He shows pics of this canoe, believed to be built by Ontario Canoe Company from plans by John Stephenson. Would anyone here know who writes under the name...authenticboats, or if theres any copies here from the 1880's OCC catalogs, which this gentleman states later became Peterborough?
     

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