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Nails or tacks?

Discussion in 'Traditional All-Wood Construction' started by enrique bruna, Dec 10, 2017.

  1. enrique bruna

    enrique bruna Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Hello friends!
    I´m not clear if a Lakefield or a Peterborough canoe, longitudinal stripped, use tacks or nails.
    Somebody know about it? Large, N°, caliber, etc?
    I cannot find a set of plans for a canoe like lakefield, if you know where, I'll be very happy.
    I built my first canoe from a brief plan without fine measures, only large and beam. Then, working with an architec, finally I get a plan. By this time I knew nothing of bed & cove, epoxy , etc. I mill the strips 8 mm x 25 mm , (my own idea). It was very hard to force the strips in the curves, and I don't want to fall in a new error.
    Thanks
     
  2. Andy Hutyera

    Andy Hutyera The Red Canoe Guy

    Working on restoring a post 1938 Lakefield. The outwales were put on with copper nails. Not sure about the planking but from what I see I’m guessing that copper tacks were used. I found a source on the Internet for copper nails but what came in the box looked much more like tacks. I’m hoping they will do the job. If I can find a source for copper nails I will gladly use them instead.
     
  3. OP
    OP
    enrique bruna

    enrique bruna Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Andy: I see the Alma´s Canoe youtube, and there it seems like outwales were removed easily. Then I suspect they are fastened with screw!
    As I understand, nails have a cilindric shaft, and tacks are conics and with a more fine point.
    Now, in my country copper tacks are not available, if I can build a canoe I must import the tacks from N America. Any contact you have to buy the tacks will be welcome to me.
    Nails are available here, they are used to fix the redwood shingles , they are number 14 x 2 ". I cut diagonal and use to fasten the strips on the stems in canoes and boats.
    Thanks for your reply Andy.
    regards
    Enrique
    PD Whe have not real redwood, but Fitsroya Cupressoides.
     
  4. samb

    samb LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Have you seen the Walter Walker film? - Look on Morral River films to find it. You'll need copper nails for a longitudinal strip built boat. I'm using 16 gauge on the one I'm building at present. I did find a set of plans somewhere on line by searching Peterborough canoe plans in images, The picture is still there but won't link to a web page. In the end I measured a friends cedar rib instead.
    Sam
     
  5. mccloud

    mccloud Wooden Canoe Maniac

    I have used 16 ga, 3/4" long copper nails on the two strip canoes that I have worked on, though this size seems a bit larger than what was used originally. You should be able to order from Canadian Tack and Nail http://www.canadiantackandnail.ca/ I drilled holes rather than risk splitting new ribs. Tom McCloud
     
  6. samb

    samb LOVES Wooden Canoes

    This is what I found. Maybe copyright issues.

    plans.jpg
     
  7. OP
    OP
    enrique bruna

    enrique bruna Curious about Wooden Canoes

    I download the plans Samb, thanks for helping me.
    I read M.Morral saying all the planks are identical, with a side straight and the other tapered, what do you think about?
    As the Ritter plans dont give the planks shape ,only speak of 16 planks per side, I think a method to obtain a profile of them is sizing the develop of the hull in diferents stations, but starting from the first plank beside the center line, a plank 3 inch wide all length, and finishing the sizing in the last near the sheer line.
    Then, dividing by 16 each sized station, I get the wide along diferents stations. To this net measures I must add the lap only in one side.
    You have experience building the longitudinal strip. Do you think it is a practical method to arrive to a plank shape?
    I will inspect the canadian nails contact of Mccloud, Thanks to you too. All of you are great guys, spending your time in advising this learner. I think, in my country I will find copper shingles nails,and may be shorter nails, but copper tacks? Impossible( and we are the second great copper productors in the world!!)
    Well, thanks again, and waiting for your words.
    Enrique
     
  8. samb

    samb LOVES Wooden Canoes

    To get the tapered planks, this is what I did:
    A 3" plank to start on each side. I then measured the distance from that plank to the sheer line and divided by the number of planks. I then added lap and cut the planks. Then, at the bow/stern, I measured the distance to the sheer at the point where the up-curve of the starts and divided that by the number of planks and added the lap. I then tapered the planks from full width in the middle to the reduced width at the end.
    I tapered them with a hand plane on an 8' shooting board, doing one half at a time then used a router to cut the rebates.

    DSC02980.JPG DSC02981.JPG DSC02985.JPG
     
  9. OP
    OP
    enrique bruna

    enrique bruna Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Good !! Samb. One comment more; the measures of the laps differ of the measures gived usualy in other post. I read 1/4 and 1/4. Morrall photos show something like yours, wider than deep. If I remember well, Morrall give 5/16 thickness to the planks How thick are your planks and how width the lap?.
     
  10. samb

    samb LOVES Wooden Canoes

    My planks are 1/4 and the rebates are 1/8 deep x 3/8. I made them wide enough so I could easily drill and drive a nail down and safely catch both boards.

    Sam
     
  11. OP
    OP
    enrique bruna

    enrique bruna Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Samb: returning from the partys, Happy new year for you¡¡¡¡
    I have a new questions , ( at this time, you are a mentor for me.....) The drawnings down at right hand in the J. Ritter plans correspond to the moulds?
    Another one: How do you joint the stems triangles of the hull with the last plank?
    If the last plank has a rebate, it must disappear, it must be eliminated with the spoke shave before joint the triangle. If the last plank has no rebate, how to joint the triangle?
    I´m thinking to made the mould with alamo´s rails 3/4 x 1 1/2", a very sof wood. I fear to cannot take out the boat after nailing all the planks.What do you think abot?
    Happyness
    Enrique.
     
  12. samb

    samb LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Happy New Year to you too.

    I'm happy to share my experiences with you - but at present, I am only 6 planks down one side and 3 on the other. Like you, I'll learn as I go on, but work has stopped at present.

    If you watch this , at about 19 minutes, it shows putting on the triangles. In part 3, the extra height of the ribs and planks is cut off.

    I've made my mould from softwood hoping it will come off ok.

    Sam
     

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