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My first canvas job

Discussion in 'Wood and Canvas' started by Treewater, Mar 15, 2010.

  1. Treewater

    Treewater Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

  2. chris pearson

    chris pearson Michigan Canoe Nut

    You will have to loosen and "chase" those wrinkles away.;)
     
  3. Gil Cramer

    Gil Cramer The wooden canoe Shop, Inc.

    Chris is right, refasten. It should only take 3 or 4 staples removed in each wrinkle location. Then by pulling normal to the rail, the canvas should be fine. Gil
     
  4. Dave Wermuth

    Dave Wermuth Who hid my paddle?

    Penn yan Rainbow resto

    Check out Randy Hunt's Penn Yan Rainbow restoration. You can see some examples of canvas there too. Pretty good for a first time solo job tho.
    Just for reference, in the time it took you, Gil canvassed three.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Treewater

    Treewater Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    mistake?

    I looked at Hunt's canoe and realized I did not use any "bedding compound." Not sure what that is. I just put the first coat of paint today. Trailcrafts had no filler to the canvas and my old canvas did not so I am opting for three coats of paint, or more, to seal it. should I unstaple the ends and put in some putty?
    Tim
     
  6. Dave Wermuth

    Dave Wermuth Who hid my paddle?

    not sure

    the bedding compound helps to seal the seam from leaking. That's the main thing. If you get it sealed up well enough you'll probably be ok. Can you cover the seam with bias cut material and paint over it? Trailcraft canoes did ok with just paint I think. So long as the paint stays flexible. I'm not sure why skin on frame canvas was different than Wood / canvas. It would not surprise me if silicone was used for under the keel. In my experience silicone should not be in the same room as a w/c canoe.
     
  7. OP
    OP
    Treewater

    Treewater Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    Bedding compound

    So i see the problem. I can still hold the canvas with staples near the end and unwrap the edge. What is in my local hardware store for "bedding compound?" Silicone? yes, this old canoe had silicone added sometime late around the keel to keep it from leaking. The canvas also had half a dozen very well done patches. It was the damage to the stringers that caused me to redo the whole thing.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/46800923@N02/4439703662/
    That patch on the left never leaked but the old canvas "bled." See moisture after only ten minutes in the water.
     
  8. Dave Wermuth

    Dave Wermuth Who hid my paddle?

    still not sure

    I do not think paint will stick to silicone, so any use of silicone should be after paint, like under the keel or in the screw holes. Unless the paint says you can paint over it I would not use it.

    Perhaps someone with more and better insight will step in?
     
  9. Brad Koeneman

    Brad Koeneman Maker of fine kindling

    IMHO, silicone, as Dave said, should never be in the same room as a w/c canoe... or any boat where paint and varnish are commonplace. Silicone is for houses, bathrooms, plastic boats, and other boring stuff.
     
  10. Greg Nolan

    Greg Nolan enthusiast

    Tim --

    Working again from a dim memory of what I did about 40 years ago, I am pretty sure that when I built a Trailcraft eons ago, I used nothing like a bedding compound, and had no problems with leakage at the canvas seams at the stem. Neither did I have any of the sort of bleeding through the canvas that shows in your picture, and I only painted the canvas on the Trailcraft, no filler. I think that the bleeding in your picture is the result of old paint that had at least a few small cracks in it. When I painted the Trailcraft canvas, I did use what was then a relatively new product that I got from Sears -- a 2 part epoxy paint, and I think I put two coats on. I seem to remember that the paint soaked well into the canvas, to the point that the color showed through on the inside, visible between the stringers. If I were painting a SOF boat now, I think I would use 2-3 coats of an oil-based paint (I'm not sure the epoxy paint did any better than ordinary paint), which I suspect would soak into the canvas better than a water-based paint. And if I needed something like a bedding compound but wanted it fast, I think I would try a paintable caulking compound; there are usually at least a couple of paintable caulks in tubes available in Lowe's or Home Depot. Like the others have said, stay away from applying silicone anywhere near where you might want to paint.

    I suspect that the canvas on a SOF canoe or boat flexes far too much at times for a traditional filler to be effectively used. I may well be wrong, buat my impression is that, while fillers have some degree of flexibility, they are intended to be used on canvas backed by planking, and are not intended to be flexed as much as the skin of a SOF boat will be.

    Greg
     
  11. OP
    OP
    Treewater

    Treewater Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    Skin on Frame canvas

    Hello Greg,
    That was my conclusion and someone might know more on this subject but the SOF canoe does flex a bit and the canvas "gives" where there is no backing. The picture of the canoe on the lake is the old canvas and it was a spiderweb of cracks in what was at least three coats of paint. I have put solid frame canoes in the water when they showed that kind of canvas and they all eventually took on water. I imagine there was a lot of water trapped between canoe and hull as well.
    Your memory is correct. The paint bleeds through the canvas and is visible on the inside. All my SOF boats have been painted on the inside and I will do the same. I believe I will use a small amount of roofing tar or plumbers putty on the end seams. I have no store bought bedding compound.
    I searched WCHA forums for more discussion of finishing canvas on SOF canoes but found none. Perhaps this will help somone else.
     
  12. Dave Wermuth

    Dave Wermuth Who hid my paddle?

    sof finishes

    At the Quiet Water Symposium I saw many sof kayaks. They were finished with different things and I wish I had paid more attention. But, as I recall, there were varnished coverings and paint mixed with chaulk coverings. sof kayaks are special and may have formulas on the 'net somewhere.
     
  13. OP
    OP
    Treewater

    Treewater Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    Canvas on Frame Kayaks

    A web search of canvas on frame kayaks brought interesting results but nothing specific about the rationale in canvas coating. However, no one mentions filler being used. Another large area of enthusiastic amateurs. Perhaps someone has a site I missed.
     
  14. Greg Nolan

    Greg Nolan enthusiast

    Tim --

    Plumbers putty sounds to me like it would work, and it would be easier than roofing tar to clean up or remove in the future. Roofing tar can be very messy, even long after it has been applied and seems to be dry -- some time in the sun on a hot day can make it soft enough to bleed and/or get on hands, clothes, etc. (We have a tarred flat roof on our Brooklyn house, and I have more experience with roofing tar than I care to think about.)

    Greg
     
  15. OP
    OP
    Treewater

    Treewater Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    it's near done

    Here is an unknown skin on frame canoe. I found a special joy in trimming the excess canvass off after now five coats of paint. The inside I varnished, spray painted, twice after the green paint was put on the outside. Obviously the green bled through. I find vanish or some paint is needed to keep the canvas from absorbing water inside the boat. The seats are not in and the outer gunwall has yet to be put on but otherwise, done. It will dry, cure for a few days before I try it out. Still wonder who made it.
    That is the old skin beside canoe in carport. Old snake skins are good luck. Maybe canoe skins too.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. OP
    OP
    Treewater

    Treewater Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    My second and third canvas jobs were yesterday and today. The one on the left is a 15'7" Trailcraft. the right is 15' OT fifty pounder. The Ot was quite easy compared to the Trailcraft. I attribute that to the concave surfaces on the Trailcraft, both end and the center, which present a challenge. I did both by the two piece method. Trailcrafts were done that way per factory instructions and shipped canvas which was in two pieces. The Old Town I did in two pieces after listening to a builder in Michigan who has built canoes all his life, and is certified to repair OT. He said he always does his in two pieces. Easy as the OT went, I think the single piece stretch just may be easier. I'll try it next. Oh yes, the Trailcraft has a coat of primer. No filler is used on them. I will put filler on the OT tomorrow. IMG_2094.JPG IMG_2095.JPG IMG_2096.JPG
     
  17. Dave Wermuth

    Dave Wermuth Who hid my paddle?

    WELL DONE! Those 15'ers are nice.
     
  18. Greg Nolan

    Greg Nolan enthusiast

    Tim--

    Looking good. I presume both canoes will have keels?

    Greg
     
  19. OP
    OP
    Treewater

    Treewater Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    Why filler or is this Jr. League Canoe?

    I used a paint roller and put near a gallon of filler on this 50 pounder. As it dried I reviewed Stelmok and Thurlow's book. I rushed back and began smoothing the filler. Quickly I realized this is very similar to finishing concrete, something I have done. To soften the dried surface, where we use water on concrete, I used linseed oil. Soon it began to take that polished surface. At the same time, my 40 lb shell was up to 55 lbs. I asked myself why I was doing this. I have seen, drooled at, leered at, those glassy hulls at the summer convention. They are like we say of Jr. League ladies down here, beautiful to look at but lots of work and money to keep. I doubt I'll ever have one, either one.
    I have paddled and refinished skin on frame. Sure the weave and ribs show. But in Paris fashion shows skin on frame, with a little ribs and cloth showing, is considered beautiful. So why the extra weight just to have a smooth hull? I got a substantial amount of that glossy surface and declined to put another coat on. I hang it in the living room to cure. I'll defer the glass finish unless someone can convince me otherwise.
    That said, having offended the ladies down here and perhaps half the club, I will cancel my personals add for a local paddle mate and advertize in Thunder Bay, or do they have a Craig's List in Wawa or Chapleau.
    A IMG_2103.JPG Tennessee disgruntled filler filler
     
  20. Fitz

    Fitz Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    And the problem is??

    Assuming you are using a traditional filler, then CONGRATULATIONS! That is how it is supposed to look. After it dries, you will need to sand it lightly without getting into the weave and then build up the coats of primer (if you use it) and paint. You will need plenty of sandpaper and elbow grease for each coat.

    Enjoy.:p
     

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