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Indian Girl seat dimensions

Discussion in 'Wood and Canvas' started by jdm6593, Nov 14, 2011.

  1. jdm6593

    jdm6593 Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    Our Indian Girl no longer has its original seats. Can someone dig up the frame dimensions and the hole size and number of holes for the cane please? Also, if anyone knows what the original caning pattern was, that would be really neat! From Kathryn Klos's picture, the stern seat appears to have 10 holes in back, 16 in front, and 14 on the sides. The sides are parallel to the gunwales and somewhat inboard of them. Dimensions?? Also, the only pictures I have seen show the seat frame as rectangular in cross-section, no shaping. Our boat is early, I wonder if these became fancier later on. Thank you.
     
  2. Kathryn Klos

    Kathryn Klos squirrel whisperer

    Hi Joe-- I've only seen the "traditional 7-step" caning pattern on Indian Girls... this is what's on ours, but although our IG hasn't been worked-on (or worked-over), the seats might have been re-woven. We assume that if they were re-done, the original pattern was replicated.

    If nobody else jumps in, I'll venture up the scary ladder to where our canoes hang out and find answers to your other questions!

    Kathy
     
  3. wanderlustjake

    wanderlustjake Beginner Canoeist

    Working on a sketch for the rear seat...
     
  4. OP
    OP
    jdm6593

    jdm6593 Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    Thanks Jason,
    I should pass on a link to what has been very useful software for me to communicate over the web. It is somewhat hampered by being specifically designed for you to order fabricated metal, but it works very well for quick and easy drawings to send over the web. To send them you need to do a screenshot, however, since the only save mode is proprietary. Or I simply use cutepdf which will create a pdf out of anything you can print. This may well be more effort than is worthwhile for a single use, but is great for two dimensional drawings. http://www.emachineshop.com/machine-shop/Download/page100.html
     
  5. wanderlustjake

    wanderlustjake Beginner Canoeist

    Here is a "rough" (one step above crayon) sketch with the dimensions for the rear seat. I am not sure the from is original on ours. Hopefully the helps.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. OP
    OP
    jdm6593

    jdm6593 Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    Great Jason! Thank you. Yours looks a fair bit different from Kathryn Klos's, but that doesn't surprise me.
    http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?7183-trapazoidal-seat-caning
     
  7. wanderlustjake

    wanderlustjake Beginner Canoeist

    The sketch gives the wrong look of proportion. If you sketch out the dimensions it will resemble Kathys.
     
  8. OP
    OP
    jdm6593

    jdm6593 Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    I'm talking about the number of holes. From counting the holes in her picture she has an even number. As far as proportions, the sides will tell me if the angle is right; they ought to match. Caning some seats sounds like a good project for cold weather, sitting by the fire.
     
  9. wanderlustjake

    wanderlustjake Beginner Canoeist

    Yeah, I noticed the number of holes was different from what you had mentioned. Wonder what dictated the change there? Kathy's seems to looks finer due to more holes. BTW, I was surprised how close the rear cross piece was to the planking on the sides, not much clearance.

    Sounds like a great winter project, it will be that much more relaxing doing it fireside.
     
  10. Dan Miller

    Dan Miller cranky canoeist Staff Member

    I doubt it is anything more than just two different guys running the seat frames under the drill press... I doubt they were standing there thinking about how altering the number of holes changed the appearance, rather, just getting it done so they could get paid...
     
  11. wanderlustjake

    wanderlustjake Beginner Canoeist

    LOL, thanks for the reality check, great point. (I work in manufacturing so I over-thought that one). :eek:
     
  12. OP
    OP
    jdm6593

    jdm6593 Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    Thanks again Jason. Here is a PDF drawing of the seat done in eMachineshop. I might want to adjust the number of holes to avoid the frame joint, but this is the count from Kathryn's boat and it looks like hers has the holes very close to those joints. I'm not very concerned since this will be a glued assembly.

    View attachment Indian Girl Seat.pdf
     
  13. wanderlustjake

    wanderlustjake Beginner Canoeist

    Nice work Joe, much cleaner than my "bar napkin" sketch, LOL. Best of all, it's there for future reference.
     
  14. OP
    OP
    jdm6593

    jdm6593 Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    Hi Kathryn. I've been looking at your seat picture in the "trapazoidal seat caning" thread and have drawn up the pattern to get some idea of how they fudged the caning pattern to make up for the shape. The caning pattern, as far as I can see, is asymmetrical; 3 holes on the right lead to six on the left, while two on the left lead to four on the right. If you get really bored in the cold weather, maybe you would verify what I'm seeing from my attempt at a caning schematic. I have never done caning, so I'm feeling my way here. It is interesting how those out-of-line canes bend around and still make the center pattern look OK. Thanks.

    View attachment Indian Girl Cane Pattern.pdf
     
  15. Kathryn Klos

    Kathryn Klos squirrel whisperer

    I'll look at the pictures tomorrow... but there should be the same number of holes along opposite sides--- a strand of cane should go into a hole on one side and find a corresponding hole on the opposite side. I think the booklet I used 30 years ago is still available through HH Perkins-- "Cane Seats for Chairs" by Ruth Comstock (can't remember what I had for lunch but I remember the name of that book!). Ha! here it is: http://hhperkins.com/product_info.php/cPath/12_29_96/products_id/1234

    I'm sure she addresses the trapezoidal seats. Bear in mind that you are doing all sorts of woodworking and other fancy-stuff with this canoe, which I couldn't do... and I learned caning from this pamphlet when I was a kid. As with other things related to restoration, you may run into odd things and have to fudge things, but it'll all work out. I'll look at the pictures tomorrow-- er--- after sleep.

    Kathy
     
  16. OP
    OP
    jdm6593

    jdm6593 Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    Thanks Kathryn,

    I realized after I sent this post that the weaver probably just did his horizontal and vertical patterns and then followed the weaving pattern diagonally to the other side. I doubt they actually aimed for a specific hole. I have a caning book coming from the library, so I should be set for some armchair boat work. Did you really post this at 12:25 AM your time? That is beyond the call of duty! These patterns are enough to make you dizzy when you are fresh. :)
     
  17. thirsty

    thirsty #8111

    Pics of IG original caning
     

    Attached Files:

  18. OP
    OP
    jdm6593

    jdm6593 Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    Thank you. A very clear view of the caning with the same hole count as Kathryn's. Your rails and Kathryn's both look like they are about 1-3/4 inch like Jason's. I do wonder if Jason's lower hole count gets the holes farther from those rail joints. Does everyone have cherry rails? I have very little experience with straight grain quarter sawn cherry. I can scarcely believe how clear some of it is. In our area what I've seen seems pretty gnarly.

    Can someone tell me how far apart the fore and aft front seat rails are?
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2011
  19. OP
    OP
    jdm6593

    jdm6593 Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    I have 3.5 mm cane ordered. I chose the size based on the distance between holes per instructions. I later found that the hole size listed for this cane size is 5/16 inch. I can scarcely believe it needs holes that big. Can someone verify the hole sizes on their Indian Girl seats please? Also, I still need the bow seat dimensions (spacing of the side rails). Thank you.

    From the pictures, it looks to me like the cane is somewhat smaller than would be used by the present day rules of thumb. If someone could measure their cane width it would be useful to me, though I might decide to ignore it now that it is ordered!
     
  20. thirsty

    thirsty #8111

    The outside dimensions of the front seat rails on our 15' IG are outside front to back 10", outside sides 13". All rails are 1 3/4" wide & 7/8" thick. The original cane is 3mm. I thought I had a pic of recaned front seat in exact pattern of original, guess not. I'll try to post one for you today.
     

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