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Discussion in 'Wood and Canvas' started by 1905Gerrish, Jul 19, 2020.
You are welcome Andre.
Hell I'm almost 70, probably half this forum is I had a great time getting materials from him very recently.
The "water repellency" sounds like a possible red flag. It will be interesting to find out how well it fills. Please do keep us advised.
At least the boat will still be a pretty color when the filler starts flaking off of that stuff because of the water repellant treatment.
Know how they get white canvas?
They bleach it.
Know what bleach does to the tensile strength of natural fibers?
If you want to buy canvas from that company, you might want to look at some of their products which actually might work on a canoe.
Why mess with what we know works? Personally, Id rather pay more for canvas from folks like Rollin. Support the guys that are "in the trade". Plus they are willing to give valuable information when something is stumping you.
Plus they are willing to give valuable information when something is stumping you.
In the majority of cases, anyways.
Chris, I understand your point and Andre, you are correct. That sharing of knowledge is key. The point that I am trying to make is that when the two older boys from central Maine call it a day and hang their hats up then where does this stuff come from? Is this really and different from lets say, " Where do canoe tacks come from"? I can assure you they are not manufactured in central Maine in these canoe restoration shops that sell them( including canvas), as I have been to both many times. We know D.B. Gurney makes the tacks and can be purchased just as well through their website which is posted in this forum.
Todd, you might be correct about the bleach and if you are, the rep that I spoke with about the canvas was strait up lying to me when she told me it was twice dyed in the USA of imported canvas to achieve all of the properties that make this canvas above standard canvas. Never-mind it states unbleached in the product description. I do realize that standard canvas will work as I have used it for 20 something years. The water repellent treatment is questioning. But you do not have the product in your hand like I and I can assure you is that you would never know this is anything beyond standard canvas if you held it in your hand. Being water repellent is certainly a quality feature though as we do not want water to be absorbed into the canvas. The water/ moisture is what causes the mildew and mold that we fight against. Any chance water repellency was left out in some descriptions so it would not get questioned?
Being a small group of folks here and personally knowing many ( and have spoke to in private to many about this subject ) it's all I'm trying to do in this post is research and ask a question or two just like anybody else in any post. I'm just trying to find information on this canvas that seems fantastic but relatively little is know about IMO. By no means am I trying to inflict any harm on a person or business. I have supported the person mentioned above almost yearly throughout the years, purchasing products, stopping at his shop and even sending him a gift months back as I though he would appreciate it.
I am not sure when sharing information turned into something bad for some? I regularly and freely share information with folks here and on the facebook page about canoes including some in this post and will continue to do so.
It's not water repellency itself that is the question, rather, what chemicals were applied to provide the water repellency and how might it interfere with your chosen filler and finish.
Are you aware of what color natural untreated cotton fiber is? If so, maybe you can tell me how they can dye it white or bright yellow without bleaching out the natural tan color first. Try looking online for some white fabric dye and report back when you find some. Feel free to dye it twice, or even more times if that's what it takes to get a clear picture of what's going on. Water repellency is one aspect, as is tear strength, though they will never be as important as the ability of the filler to saturate and securely bond to the cotton fibers. That is where you are setting yourself up for potential failure.
If it doesn't feel waxy, then it is most likely a fluorocarbon treatment. That's what is used on the vast majority of outdoor garments, tents and similar items. It's good stuff, but not something you really want to try bonding to. What might make a dynamite Orvis canvas and leather-trimmed piece of luggage, isn't very likely to work very well on a canoe's covering. You very well may find that it's not very economical when you end up having to do the job twice in order to get it right.
For 31 years, I have used Rollin as my canvas source. I have zero problems having given him hundreds of dollars in profit, as he is a source for far more than canvas. I sincerely doubt that when Rollin retires, that Northwoods Canoe will fold up. Too much young blood in the shop that’s enthusiastic.
I don’t like experimenting with alternative sources or materials, ESPECIALLY when it’s someone else’s canoe and money. I’m pretty content doing the job right, and not cutting corners to make a few more bucks.
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