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Canvas Type?

Discussion in 'Wood and Canvas' started by 1905Gerrish, Jul 19, 2020.

  1. 1905Gerrish

    1905Gerrish LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Looking to purchase some # 10 , 60" wide canvas. Can someone verify that the better canvas that currently is being used is "Sunforger #10, #1 grade"? I haven't purchased canvas in 20 years. Canvas.PNG
  2. Dan Miller

    Dan Miller cranky canoeist Staff Member

    10 oz canvas is lighter than No. 10 canvas, which is closer to 15 oz/sqyd.

    Also, Sunforger canvas is treated with water repellents. I would avoid it not knowing how it would affect the filler.

    The simplest solution is to order it from Rollin.
    Dan Lindberg and MGC like this.
  3. OP

    1905Gerrish LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Hi Dan,

    Thanks for the reply. Thanks for the catch on the size canvas. I was looking for #10 but Google defaulted me to the No. 10 canvas as its a bit more common. I would not be surprised to find out that Sunforger is used on the treated canvas. Being water resistant I would think is the #1 benefit of the treated canvas. Without the water there is no mildew. Sunforger is being touted on many marine fabric sellers pages including all cotton. You are certainly correct regarding ordering through Rollin. The easy route would be ordering through him but I was hoping to not give the extra hundreds of profit dollars and keep it in my pocket. I ordered a 100 yard roll 20 years ago and it has finally been used. I believe 76 folks have read this post and you were the only reply at this moment. Seems like we are a bit short on knowledge of where this canvas comes from? Rollin is almost 70 and not the easiest fellow to get information from personal experience. His webpage won't be around forever to click the mouse button and order canvas from without any more thought given. I hope this subject won't be added to the list of the ever growing list of ever aging and lost things in the WCHA?

    Anyways I did some more digging. Here is a link to what I found. I phone call is in order.

  4. Dan Lindberg

    Dan Lindberg Ex Wood Hoarder

    Some months/years ago there was a string that referenced several sources of canvas. Try some searching.
    I don't remember what the subject was or who posted.
    1905Gerrish likes this.
  5. Dan Miller

    Dan Miller cranky canoeist Staff Member

    I would think the canvas in the link you just provided would work fine. The only advantage to Rollin's canvas is that it is treated with a mildewcide that is known to be compatible with fillers and paints.

    With the untreated canvas, you'll want to work out how to add some mildicidal properties, like the little packets from (your favorite) hardware store that you add to your filler and paint.

    There was also a canvas source that advertised in Wooden Canoe a couple years ago you could check out as well.

    1905Gerrish likes this.
  6. Todd Bradshaw

    Todd Bradshaw Sailmaker

    Sunforger is treated to be water repellent for use in making boat covers. It is the best canvas for that use, but would most likely be lousy canoe covering canvas and it is certainly possible that it would not get along well with your filler from an adhesion standpoint. It is also not totally mildew proof, so the "without water there is no mildew" statement is simply not true. All cotton canvas gets much of its water repellency by soaking up water, swelling the fibers, and temporarily plugging the spaces between them. As it dries, they open back up and the fabric can breathe to allow trapped humidity to escape.

    I don't know what they think the term "boat shrunk" means, but having actually made boat covers from it for some of my customers, it is absolutely not immune to shrinkage over time. I would usually plan on about 3% when designing a cover. If you want a boat cover and don't want to pay the price for acrylic or polyester canvas, Sunforger is the best of the available cotton canvas fabrics. On the other hand, if you want to cover a canoe, get the real stuff that works, not Sunforger.
  7. Rollin Thurlow

    Rollin Thurlow member since 1980

    Oh my gosh, I must defend myself just a little bit, I am definitely not almost 70! I have worked hard to get to 72.
    I could retire but people keep asking me questions so I'm too busy to fill out the World of Wooden Canoes retirement paperwork.
  8. MGC

    MGC Scrapmaker

    Hey Rollin, get back to work. You've already punched in for today and need to get things moving. Your audience is watching and time is wasting.

    Zack, let's say you can do 15 to 18 canoes with a hundred yards of canvas. I usually buy as I go but presuming that 100 yards is a few hundred dollars more when you buy it from Rollin...that only works out to pocket change per canoe added cost. Keeping Rollin around for a more years and knowing that you are buying a known canvas seems like a good choice to make. In the grand scheme of things the cost of a canvas is minimal.
    Rollins shop cam is the best entertainment on the interwebs. Think of your purchases as a donation to support great canoe construction/coffee drinking entertainment that is a worthwhile supportable cause, just like your local PBS station.
    Dan Lindberg and Rob Stevens like this.
  9. Andre Cloutier

    Andre Cloutier Firestarter. Wicked Firestarter.

    Rollin is almost 70 and not the easiest fellow to get information from personal experience.

    Never found him to be anything but genial and forthcoming. hmmm.
  10. David Satter

    David Satter LOVES Wooden Canoes

    All numbered canvas is not the same. #10 natural can be very different from different companies. Buy from someone reliable.
  11. MGC

    MGC Scrapmaker

    You are welcome...but not a skilled artist. ;)
  12. shelldrake

    shelldrake LOVES Wooden Canoes

    I'm in the process of finishing an Atkinson Traveler build. Rollin and his crew have been approachable and helpful, even when I felt "funny" as an amateur about asking for advice about techniques used in their trade.
  13. dtdcanoes

    dtdcanoes LOVES Wooden Canoes

    A fella from Manhattan was passing through New Harbor, Maine and asked an elderly gent at the gas pump...have you lived here all your life ? With little hesitation, he replied
    NOT YET . As to Rolly, while he is not perfect, he does come awfully close to the embodiment of all that I know to be good about Maine and its people. I approve my message !
    Not too long ago I started my last restoration on an early Williams that had been treated unfairly by the salt , probably on the Kennebunk River. Without the encouragement and guidance from Rollin I doubt I would have sustained the course. Happy Birthday, Rolly .
  14. Rollin Thurlow

    Rollin Thurlow member since 1980

    Thank you for the birthday wishes. Attached is what happens when you mix working in the shop with celebrating your birthday!
    shop 41.JPG shop 41.JPG shop 41.JPG The seat design seem reasonable at the time...
  15. Dan Miller

    Dan Miller cranky canoeist Staff Member

    That's sort of like the round seats on Rangeley Lakers, intended to keep the sport sitting amidships. Perhaps yours is intended for (ahem) rougher water?
  16. dtdcanoes

    dtdcanoes LOVES Wooden Canoes

    The original plans did specify a seat belt as I recall.
  17. MGC

    MGC Scrapmaker

    So any suggestion that Rollin has been dethroned is proven verifiably wrong. Action shots on TicToc.
    mmmalmberg likes this.
  18. pklonowski

    pklonowski Unrepentant Canoeist

    Tooo funnnyyy ....
  19. OP

    1905Gerrish LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Now back to seriousness and share some quality info. Pay no attention if you would like to donate to others! A couple phone calls and my questions were answered from one of the largest canvas companies in the country. They confirmed this is being used on canoes. It is midwest canvas/double piled/double stitched as all terms mean the same thing. This is a sample that was sent to me. The canvas is water resistant, mildew resistant, pre shrunk and anti-microbial. The canvas is actually dyed and comes in many colors. The twice dying and heated chemical treatment actually shrink the canvas a bit for the original 60" wide to the finished product of 58" to 59". The photos I took are next to untreated #10 canvas that I filled this week. The white color is probably a good fit but the browns are not bad options as well. To the touch the canvas is a bit softer and more pliable. At $9 a yard currently. I hope this information can help many as it is discussed so frequently. canvas2.jpg canvas1.jpg
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2020
  20. Andre Cloutier

    Andre Cloutier Firestarter. Wicked Firestarter.

    none paid. see if they will sell you a clue.

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