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A new Kildonan canoe

Discussion in 'Wood and Canvas' started by Douglas Ingram, Jan 17, 2007.

  1. pklonowski

    pklonowski Unrepentant Canoeist

    Hi Doug,

    You're giving away too much good info for this to qualify as self-promotion. It's great reading, especially for those of us waiting to start new boat projects, with little experience to draw on. Post Away, I say!
     
  2. Scot T

    Scot T LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Keep up the posts Douglas and don't worry about self promotion. If you don't promote yourself, who else is going to??

    Anyways, I for one am learning a lot. I have a Greenwood canoe (West coast builder who followed in the style of Old Town and the rest of the Maine gang) that has a very simular seat set up to your Kildonan. After I get it back in floating condition (it suffered a fair bit of damage in a wind storm before I got it) I'm thinking of building a new one from this. The description concerning the seat placement is very helpful. Thanks for sharing.
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Douglas Ingram

    Douglas Ingram Red River Canoe & Paddle

    OK, in keeping up the posts for general interest:

    The filler is curing quickly. I've got the outer gunnels ready to install, maybe start tomorrow. The seats are being caned now.

    Thought you'd all like to know what I've been doing while I've been waiting. I've got a Chestnut Pal varnished, canvassed, and filled. I've also got another Red Fox of the form, closing that one up today. That's why I'm not installing gunnels.

    A detail of the seats shows a 1/4" drill bit with the contersink. I find that hand cane really needs a slightly larger hole to ease all those strands through. Actually, its the last binder strands that need it. Also, the slight bevel to the holes made by the countersink reduces the "cutting" potential of the hole corners. I do the back of the hole as well.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. OP
    OP
    Douglas Ingram

    Douglas Ingram Red River Canoe & Paddle

    OK, finally getting the gunnels on! The filler has set up very nicely and won't take much to get a smooth finish. I tried something on the Chestnut that I'll do again on this canoe: I mixed microrballoons, like you'd use in epoxy, into the enamel base coats. It builds well, sands easily, and prepares a very nice base for the final paint.

    I always love it when you trim the canvas down for the gunnel installation. NOW it starts looking clean and canoe-esque.

    As you can see, lots of clamps are a treat. I've been adding to my collection over the years.

    There's a fair bit of rise to the sheer at the ends. I steam this bend into the inner gunnels, but not always to the outer ones. They usually take the bend pretty easy, but on some canoes like this one, need some encouragement. At the focus of the bend, I clamp a piece of wood over the gunnels and another one to the deck. I pour boiling water over the gunnel to relax it, then using a pipe clamp I start coaxing it up to its final resting place.

    Screws are standard #8 x 1.2" Brass set on every other rib. They are Robertson drive. I won't use anything else-slot drive screws are an abomination.

    Seat caneing is almost done. I do that in the evenings while watching TV. After the main grid strands are in, one or two strands per night is easy and it adds up pretty quick. I use the pattern that Peterborough and Chestnut used. Kildonan also used it, but weren't as tidy in weaving it. Lay out the gird strands weaving a double strand, then the diagonals with each intersection either above or below the grid. The result is a combination of squares and X's. I prefer this pattern over the pinwheel pattern.

    The cane is natural strand. I've found the best way to soften them is to soak them about 1/2 hour in the morning, then put the damp strands into a ziploc bag till later in the day. They can stay in thebag quite awhile. Then they are nice and supple as the moisture goes all the way in. Just soaking them 1/2 hour and they dry out too quickly. OK for the grid strands but the diagonals take longer and need to be more supple. Leaving them soak longer and they start to go grey, getting pretty dark if left very long in the water.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 21, 2007
  5. Dave Wermuth

    Dave Wermuth Who hid my paddle?

    hi doug

    thanks for posting this. i have found it very helpful.
    do not be alarmed if you get a nasty letter from the society for the preservation of the slotted screw, they're a cranky bunch but they quickly forget because their mind slips just like the screws.
     
  6. OP
    OP
    Douglas Ingram

    Douglas Ingram Red River Canoe & Paddle

    I'm ready for them Dave. Bring 'em on!

    Finished installing the gunnels, sanded them and varnished first coat. Got the first coat of paint on today.

    I wish that I didn't have to divide attentions between so many projects simultaneously... Got the second coat of varnish on the Fox, and I thought that I had the last coat of paint on the Chestnut Pal. Most people would say that it was pretty good, I'll have to decide Monday. I'm running out of room for all these canoes. Its tough to varnish when you need to make dust!
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Louis Michaud

    Louis Michaud LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Douglas, would you mind giving the mixing quantities? I would like to try this out: " I mixed microrballoons...into the enamel base coats. It builds well, sands easily, and prepares a very nice base for the final paint"

    Best,

    Louis Michaud
     
  8. OP
    OP
    Douglas Ingram

    Douglas Ingram Red River Canoe & Paddle

    Louis,

    I'm still experimenting with the quantities, but I've been mixing about 3/4 - 1 full plastic beer cup of microballoons into 1 liter of paint. I don't dilute it. Mix it VERYwell.

    Bon chance.

    I'll be sanding the Kildonan and gettin the first finish coat and stem bands on today. Tomorrow I'll get the final coat on.

    BTW, my client has recalled that the company designation for this canoe model is: "Timber Cruiser". That's what it will remain until anyone proves different!
     
  9. Louis Michaud

    Louis Michaud LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Thanks!

    A 17'6" x 39" x 17" Timber Cruiser is a long way from the sleek Chestnut Cruisers... Just what kind of timbers do you have out there ???
     
  10. OP
    OP
    Douglas Ingram

    Douglas Ingram Red River Canoe & Paddle

    A Timber Cruiser a like a prospector for trees instead of minerals. They'd go up into the bush with a lot of gear and survey the forsets for the lumber companies. Who knows how long they'd be out?!

    This canoe is big, but its also going to be very fast, you should see the entry lines. It has flare in the top sides, so its waterline is no more than 36". This canoe is no pig!
     
  11. Dan Lindberg

    Dan Lindberg Ex Wood Hoarder

    Doug,
    Thanks for the build record, looks like a nice project.

    Robert,
    Check out Alex Comb's offerings, he is pretty aggressive on weight.

    Dan
     
  12. OP
    OP
    Douglas Ingram

    Douglas Ingram Red River Canoe & Paddle

    Hey everybody.

    Finished turning in the last screw at 9:35 last night. Rest assured that I didn't work all day and night to finish it. A few hours in the morning, and then took the rest of the day to spend with my wife and kids on the last day of spring break. Took last Wednesday off, too, same reason. Made up for it by working crazy hours the rest of the time.

    So this is how the Kildonan turned out. Birch trim, curly maple decks, Chetnut green, painted over stem bands to keep with the tradition, brass gunnel tip protector plates, hand caned seats with bevelled front, center thwart shaped for lashing paddles for portaging.

    New owners picked her up this morning and have reported a finished weight of 77.5 lbs. Not bad for such a big boat.

    Oh, and I got the Chestnut Pal done and she left this morning too. I finally have a little space in the shop. Won't last long...

    Now I have to finish Robert's paddle!
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 1, 2007
  13. pklonowski

    pklonowski Unrepentant Canoeist

    Kildonan canoe

    Looks nice, Doug! Thank you for the progress reports & pics!
     
  14. Denis M. Kallery

    Denis M. Kallery Passed Away July 3, 2012 In Memoriam

    Doug,
    Niiiice [that's a drawn out nice to indicate great appreciation]! I lmay use some of your ideas, like countersinking the seats for caning.
    Denis
     
  15. Scot T

    Scot T LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Beautiful Douglas. That is a very nice looking boat and thanks for the play by play in building it. I really appreciate you taking the time.

    Very nice touch with the curly maple decks. I use a lot of that stuff (and quilted maple) in the guitars I build. I have a nice chunk of quilted that is too small for even my smallest model so why not make use of it in the next canoe I build? Thanks for the idea.
     
  16. OP
    OP
    Douglas Ingram

    Douglas Ingram Red River Canoe & Paddle

    Thanks everyone. I'll post some photos of the canoe launched once I receive some from the new owners. That should complete the thread.

    Scott, I build guitars, too. Sometimes it distracts me greatly from the canoe building. I'm into classicals and Selmers.
     
  17. Dan Lindberg

    Dan Lindberg Ex Wood Hoarder

    Doug,

    Thanks for posting this record of your work, very nice.

    A couple questions/comments for you,

    You mixed mico-balloons in the paint, did you have any problem with them floats in the paint? I tried them in filler and couldn't keep them "down", ended up using cab-o-sil instead.

    And it seems odd to see the words "very fast" and 36" waterline together. On a canoe 17.5 ft long, that seems very wide. The fast designs usually are in the 32-34" range for 17-18.5 canoes. On a large strip tripper I'm making, I pushed it out to 34" and that's with a 18'1" waterline length, 18'7" OL length, and I don't expect this to be fast.

    Dan

    "This canoe is big, but its also going to be very fast, you should see the entry lines. It has flare in the top sides, so its waterline is no more than 36". This canoe is no pig!"
     
  18. OP
    OP
    Douglas Ingram

    Douglas Ingram Red River Canoe & Paddle

    Dan,

    I only mixed microballoons in the first, and sometimes second base coat. I use one of those mixer attachments for the drill. After a bit of mixing in by hand, I go at it with the mixer to ensure tha everything is well mixed. It should apply like any paint, albeit a slightly thicker paint. It does flow out pretty well, better thanI expected.

    I should have been clearer, perhaps, about describing how fast the canoe will be.

    It won't be a very fast canoe compared to one whose only intention is to go fast. It will be fast for a high volume tripping canoe, and it will be faster than its dimensions would seem to indicate.
     
  19. Dan Lindberg

    Dan Lindberg Ex Wood Hoarder

    A nice looking canoe, looking forward to seeing launch pics and hearing the owners feedback.
     
  20. Louis Michaud

    Louis Michaud LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Doug, here is some info on Kildonan Canoe Co. I got from the Canadian Trade-Marks Database. Hope it can give you a few leads to follow in Winnipeg.

    Trade-mark: Kildonan Canoe Co.

    Wares: Marine runabouts, boats, canoes, launches and the parts, components and fittings of the foregoing.

    Claims: Used in Canada since at least as early as 1965.

    Filed: 1968-11-07
    Registered: 1970-10-09
    Expunged-Failure to renew: 1985-12-31

    Registrant: The George D. Simpson Manufacturing Company (1965) Limited
    530 Sheppard Street, Winnipeg.

    Representative for Service: Buchwald Asper Gallagher Henteleff, Commodity Exchange Tower, 2500-360 Main Street, Winnipeg Manitoba R3C 4H6
     

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