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1905-ish Decal

Discussion in 'Wood and Canvas' started by Canoeal, Sep 7, 2018.

  1. Canoeal

    Canoeal Canoe/kayak builder/resto

    Does anyone have a clean picture of a good, original, 1905 decal? The peel and stick on the site is not even close based on the picture of a far less than perfect one...
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

    The best one that I've seen is attached below. Only three of these are know to exist and none of them are in good shape.

    Benson


    1906-4814b.jpg
     
  3. MGC

    MGC Paddlephile

    If anyone wants me to try and get a better quality image of this PM me.
    I was not super fussy when I took this picture. I have never tried cleaning it. It is possible that I might be able to improve it by removing some of the grime it acquired in the boathouse it sat in for over 100 years...
     
  4. OP
    OP
    Canoeal

    Canoeal Canoe/kayak builder/resto

    Thank you Benson and MGC. I would appreciate the cleanest one possible. One of our chapter members is looking into a 1905 , and has contacted me for details. As far as I am concerned the stick on plastic should go no where near a surviving boat...It might kill it.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Canoeal

    Canoeal Canoe/kayak builder/resto

    You see what I was looking at...
     
  6. OP
    OP
    Canoeal

    Canoeal Canoe/kayak builder/resto

    So Benson, going with your picture and trying to do a photo restore, I came up with the following:

    Outside of the upside down body like the later Old Town decal; edges would have still been gold.
    Main body would have been yellow.
    The section around and what would have be under the banner at the outsides, like a sea blue.
    Banner brown,with apparently white edging and letters. Letters edged uniformly in black
    Old Town Canoe Co lettering Black, with a red shadow...Reason
     

    Attached Files:

  7. OP
    OP
    Canoeal

    Canoeal Canoe/kayak builder/resto

    I was doing a retouch of the outline based on the picture from Benson. Did anyone notice the 5s in the decal? It helps to turn it upside down...
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Craig Allen

    Craig Allen Curious about Wooden Canoes

    If you can create your own artwork Model Decal Depot in Richmond Vancouver can make water transfer decals for you. www.modeldecaldepot.ca
    While they specialize in model railroading, as long as they have artwork to copy from, they can make any decal. I've used them before after restoring an antique bicycle and was very satisfied with their work.
     
  9. MGC

    MGC Paddlephile

    1905 decal....... 1905 OT Decal MGC 2018.JPG
    IMHO it looks pretty darned good for it's age....
     
    Just1moredave likes this.
  10. MGC

    MGC Paddlephile

  11. MGC

    MGC Paddlephile

    OT 1905 Decal MGC.png
    Take your pick.....
     
  12. OP
    OP
    Canoeal

    Canoeal Canoe/kayak builder/resto

    Thanks!
     
  13. dtdcanoes

    dtdcanoes LOVES Wooden Canoes

    WOW, Al.....the more one looks at the MGC example the more it appears as a work of art. It seems to be hand painted on the job and not a decal. I wish OT had never made the change as it is a striking add to the deck especially one in mahogany. It is so FINE I could understand using it on all earlier OT's. Mike, is there any use of gold leaf in this example...tough to tell in the photo...and look at the gray for shadowing coming from the left ! ?
     
  14. MGC

    MGC Paddlephile

    It is indeed a very high quality decal. Photo's continue to fail to do it justice. All of the border areas contained within the fine black outlines are gold leaf. In some areas the leaf is shaded. Unfortunately there is some damage to the decal and also some fading in some areas. Each of the iterations that I have attached (except the first one) have been retouched to repair the damage...the challenge (for me) is taking the time to re-build it at a single pixel level. The gold is extremely difficult to duplicate since it appears as a variety of very different pixel colors ranging from greens to very white yellows. Perhaps a graphic designer with better graphic tools and more patience could do a better job or editing/repairing. That said. I suspect that the last image that I attached here will suffice to make a good looking copy of the decal.
    From my perspective, I would not want to put a copy decal back on my 06 Double Gunwale...even though it would indeed look sharp against the mahogany decks. For me the issue would be one of originality. Mine is gone...and it will stay that way. If I put a copy decal on the deck it take away a small piece of the boats history. I do have tattered older decals on some of my other boats...and worked really hard to keep them in place even though they are in far worse shape than this one. To each their own... there is no restoration police.
     
  15. OP
    OP
    Canoeal

    Canoeal Canoe/kayak builder/resto

    Making even the best reproduction decal to look original is an almost impossible task. I was thinking more for having a true historical reference and to be able to offer it on a 1 off basis. sometimes in the sake of getting the look right it is better to print it on old thin paper, and doing it with a varnish technique...It turns out the one I was thinking of, according the work order, is a 1906, so not for that boat. I do not believe in using anything on a boat that was not the original.

    I have a hundred or so Kennebec, original decals, that were used for display purposes and in sales, but I have never seen them on a boat...at least not where it was original...One on River Grace's canoe...
     
  16. MGC

    MGC Paddlephile

    This is the correct decal for 1905 and 1906. It came with a 1906 Old Town. I am the second owner of the canoe. The item it was on (a backrest) is original and was included on the original sales order.
     
  17. OP
    OP
    Canoeal

    Canoeal Canoe/kayak builder/resto

    I thought so. The one I started this thread with was supposed to be from a 1906 canoe, or so I was told. My mind isn't what it used to be, and I was not so sure.
     
  18. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

    The exact transition date from this decal to the more modern style is not clear. The newer style decal was featured on the catalog cover in 1906 as shown at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/covers/large-06.gif and this is the era when they started keeping build records on cards. There are only two known canoes with the older style decal on the deck and they both have serial numbers which were not recorded on build record cards. The one posted at the beginning of this thread has serial number 1473 and the decal was lost during the restoration. The other is number 2731 and the decal is just an outline as shown below. Mike's decal featured in this thread is on a back rest that came with serial number 4814 but the canoe has no decal remaining on the deck. The canoes with serial numbers 2994 and 4970 have variations of the modern style decal on the deck. There are build record cards for these last three canoes.

    Benson



    1905-2731a.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018 at 8:56 AM
  19. OP
    OP
    Canoeal

    Canoeal Canoe/kayak builder/resto

    The image printed in the 1906 catalog is also different than the one printed after 1910. It would not have been the decal we sell in the store, as that matches the later one...Food for thought. Did they change the catalog with the issuing of the new decal, or was the decal and the catalog different in the older versions?

    I would post the differences, but my version of the catalogs won' let me do anything, even print, copies of the oldest files...
     
  20. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

    It appears that the decal changed quite a bit over time as shown below. The canoe with serial number 4970 from 1906 had light blue in some of the blank areas. Number 8026 from 1908 may have had some red in these areas. A "Trade Mark" notation was added below the center bar in the late teens as shown on number 53895 from 1919 and 66629 from 1922. This is the decal that the WCHA has reproduced. The drawings of the logo in the catalogs did not always match the deck decals exactly.

    Benson


    1906-4970.jpg 1908-8025.jpg 1919-53895.jpg 1922-66629.JPG
     

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